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Post by Lady Cari on Oct 19, 2018 20:26:28 GMT
Name: Destiny/Loki Nation: The Glorious Reich of German Empire of Prussia Why do you want to be a Senator?: -I want to rejoin the political landscape of Londinium to further its potential and help it grow like I did before. I want to have a positive impact on the region and the senate seems to be the most promising Institution to start with. What can you contribute to Londinium?: -A different Perspective and multiple points of view that might benefit the region, as seen in the Mentor bill I proposed before I was ... gone. My thoughts and views of the World and the region, or politics in general might bring other ways to the table to deal with issues in a not yet considered way. I also plan on bringing a religion to Londinium that could add some more ways of participation to the region. Do you plan to recruit (send 50 manual recruitment TGs per month) or join the army? One is required to remain in the Senate: -I was part in the first iteration of the army and if possible would like to rejoin it. Experience: -I have been a very active member of this region since it first was created and consider myself a Veteran. I have been invested in the creation of the NCU, now called NIF, and was its leader. I also have served as the Chief Diplomat, the Pro Tempore, member of the Parliament (MP), Deputy Primeminister and as a member of the Moderators Action Commitee. The above application is now in the discussion period. If there is no discussion, I will open the vote after 48 hours (or as soon as possible after that time has passed). If there is discussion, I may delay the vote as necessary.
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Post by Lady Cari on Oct 20, 2018 14:39:05 GMT
I'll go ahead and address the elephant in the room, since I think most of us agree it needs to be said. At this time I would like to establish that the applicant may interject as he sees fit for the duration of the discussion period. I would also like to clarify that I am stating this as a Senator, not as Consul, and that I am not lobbying for or against the applicant. As we all know, Destiny was banned completely from the region and all its platforms due to repeated out-of-character (OOC) misconduct. For a more elaborate discussion than I am able to provide of the line between OOC and in-character (IC) bans, and the context of the ban itself, I direct Senators to the original ban announcement. In the six months since, Destiny has reportedly improved his behavior. I have not personally seen much of him since then, but other Senators have, so they are encouraged to testify to this. I would encourage Senators to take this into account as they vote. The circumstances of this application could pose problems within and without the region in the future; whether or not the specific applicant will be problematic, I cannot and will not say.
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Post by germanempire on Oct 20, 2018 18:46:58 GMT
Lady and Gentlemen,
I would like to respond to the vicious attack on my political appearence by Mr. Lady here. As they well know I have been banned as a result of a missplaced missunderstanding, as I would put it, on the main regional discord server that was not aimed at somebody and neither was discriminatory towards a certain group.
I strongly reject the averment that I would cherish, follow or even support a political movement that is national socialistic in nature or even remotely compareable to it. Having said this, I would like to openly disavow any political connection towards that very much flawed ideology and again distance myself from the implied accusations.
Speaking of connections, I also want to comment on the non-existentence of one between my 'out-of-character' ban and my political 'in-character' actions. There has never been a single report or a complaint about my behavior on a gameside level and I have allways used the powers given to me with good intent towards a more prosperous Londinium.
As you can see I have to question the reasoning behind the intention to bring up my ban in a gamesided matter when I have never acted treasoness or unfaithful in any of my offices. I look sorrowed on this matter and have to see it as a means to taint my, until now, clean political carrier in the service of Londinium. Should this thought get significant support from my fellow londonians I will consider total withdrawl from the political landscape and possibly the region itself. I like it here, and I like (most of) the people I am surrounded with, but a question of my loyalty and my earnest intentions is just insulting.
-DESTINY
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Post by Lady Cari on Oct 21, 2018 13:38:49 GMT
The chair will now entertain a motion to extend discussion. If no motion is made, voting will commence in roughly 7 hours.
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Bymaria [I swear I logged in!]
Guest
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Post by Bymaria [I swear I logged in!] on Oct 21, 2018 18:52:40 GMT
I move that discussion be extended by at least another day so as Senators have time to ponder over and write responses regarding the application and certain potential concerns voiced about the candidate.
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Post by Bym on Oct 21, 2018 20:30:06 GMT
sorry for not logging in
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Post by Lady Cari on Oct 21, 2018 20:47:15 GMT
Seeing no objections and lacking the time or care to obtain a second, I will extend discussion till 18:00 CDT on Tuesday, October 23.
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Post by Bymaria on Oct 21, 2018 21:00:03 GMT
This is not me, but it does speak for me.
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Nesearan
Senator
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Posts: 507
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Post by Nesearan on Oct 21, 2018 21:03:02 GMT
This is not me, but it does speak for me. can you guess who it was?
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Post by Lady Cari on Oct 22, 2018 2:21:48 GMT
I'm going to put the admin hat on for a moment and advise that we not start impersonating.
That said, I've taken the liberty to require a user to be logged in to post on this board.
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Post by Bymaria on Oct 22, 2018 14:26:18 GMT
Before time runs out I would like to take a moment to give my take on the developments in this discussion, trying to be as diplomatic as possible.
So I’ll start by saying — and I think I speak for many of us Senators in saying this — that it was completely reasonable for Cari to have brought to light the candidate’s history, especially for younger Senators who may have been unaware of those details. Let me be perfectly clear that all of my honourable colleague’s statement was accurate information, and I don’t doubt the intentions in raising the issue were solely for informative purposes in enabling the Senate to make its most well-briefed decision. [Making it out as a political smear to avoid taking responsibility is not advised, if that is what is happening.] The candidate raises his “loyalty and earnest intentions,” however the post he takes issue with never brought any of that up; it was more a question of character. And I do believe to some extent that the response he made did not portray as good a character as he might have hoped, in the somewhat hostile manner in which he addressed my colleague. Personally I had reason to believe this, but do we have a guarantee from the prospective Senator that all toxic-activity has ceased and will not resume at any point? That’s all we needed to hear, really.
Another question that I know is on the minds of other Senators who have failed to raise it is: does German Empire feel entitled to the position he held previously within the region’s politics and does he think his ban should effect that in any way?
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Post by Sopo on Oct 22, 2018 14:38:34 GMT
German Empire, do you feel that your original ban was justified? If so, what have you done to improve your behavior? If not, what led to such an extreme misunderstanding that you were banned, and how will you prevent such misunderstandings in the future?
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Post by United Barbaros on Oct 22, 2018 16:18:03 GMT
I do not have much to add, except that I agree with Bymaria, Cari, and Sopo in the information or concerns they have raised. We must also remember that we are talking about the main political body of Londinium, whose members have lifelong membership and wield prestigious powers in service to Londinium. This is not a kids club. Therefore, a question of character shouldn't be immediately dismissed as a smear campaign, especially when a ban was previously imposed.
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Post by germanempire on Oct 22, 2018 22:40:35 GMT
As it seems I have been a bit flooded by questions, accusations and assumptions. I'll be responding to them in order, but before I do so I want to shed some light on my perspective of the most unfortunate ban I recieved.
Part 1: The proper context
As probably everybody knows or thinks to know I have been banned in the unflattering company of something related to national socialist content, from which I have distanced myself often enough. What almost nobody knows is that it was a response to post made by Nesearan, who changed the lyrics of the propaganda song 'Deutschland erwache!', which I pointed out to him and as evidence in a small conversation send in the original lyrics to which I explicitly wrote that it was for 'educational' purpose. No 'propaganda' was to be achived by this nor anything else, except the continuation of my conversation with my fellow member of Londinium about his 'song'.
Part 2: Assumed other reasons for the ban
As another reason Fortwile pointed out that I used racialy loaded language on a third party server on discord, which might be true given the right context of course. The server, which is explicitly outside of the jurisdiction of Londinium and in no way connected to it, is a joke server where everybody is welcome and can make jokes, memes and whatnot to their hearts content. The fact that there is limited moderation on any type of language is an aspect that is just as right as the strict regulation on Londonium related platforms and is nothing more than a different interpretation of 'free speech'. I have been called things from 'Kraut' to 'german scum' there, but you dont see me calling for a ban or other consequences and I'd like to reserve the same lenience for me, in the right context of course.
In conclusion I have to admit that I disagree to the highest degree with the ban, a simple request to delete my comment would have sufficed.
In the following I will respond to the assumption of my 'toxicity'. Until this day I have never been called this term and had to google the context it revolved around and came to the conclusion that this:
1. toxicity - grave harmfulness or deadliness perniciousness unwholesomeness, morbidness, morbidity - the quality of being unhealthful and generally bad for you
is definetly nothing I would either call myself or another person that I'd value above sh*t, but to each their own fitting terminology I guess.
'(...) does German Empire feel entitled to the position he held previously within the region’s politics and does he think his ban should effect that in any way?'
Let me put it like this: If the ban was not a consequence of something I was doing wrong in my long history of serving the region, I dont see a reason to question my character in that regard since whatever was responsible for my ban was not related to my political actions. But you can of course ask away about my belives in a general political or personal level which you can use to determine my 'character' if you have forgotten from being on the same server with me for all the time I was banned Bym and Barb.
And to answer if I 'feel entitled' to my old positions I would answer yes in the case of my leader ship of my party and no to the case of me needing to be admitted to the senator position, otherwise I would not be caring to have this conversation.
1. 'German Empire, do you feel that your original ban was justified? (...)If not, what led to such an extreme misunderstanding that you were banned,(..)'
2. '(...) If so, what have you done to improve your behavior?(...) and how will you prevent such misunderstandings in the future?'
To answer Sopos questions I'd like to point towards the top of the comment for the fist one and say the following to the second:
It seems like the key to not repeat this regretful missunderstanding is to not let there be another situation that can be missinterpreted so grossly by keeping content meant for adults to handle from the 'not a kids club', mainly the discord server though, since this seems to be my Achillie's heel. As you all know hopefuly have I never been in trouble in gamesided matter through any of my Actions while I was holding an office.
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Post by Lady Cari on Oct 24, 2018 3:04:17 GMT
Here I was thinking I had set the vote for 9 and not 6. Ah well. Voting is officially in order for the admission of Destiny. The vote will close at 22:00 CDT Thursday, October 25, or when all Senators have voted. Please post "aye", "nay", or "abstain" in this thread. Bymaria United Barbaros Nyelant Nesearan Sukberia Sopo
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